hacker.org

And that particular rivalry is the infamous Windows VS Linux!

Now, a few rules before you start to keep the trolls and script kiddies out of this, because I want this to be a useful thread.
1st, always support your claims with facts. I really don't want to see replies like "Linux rulez, its 733t, windowze is teh lose!" kind of trolling.
2nd, try not to repeat arguments said before, unless you have something updated or seen under a new perspective.

So, I shall make the first one

Windows advantages:

-Sheer number of programs written
-Almost-total (I am not 100% sure if it is total) support of every hardware
-Most widespread OS, even taught in schools
-Simple in use for the unskilled user (Next-->Next-->Finish philosophy)
-Seemingly easy development of applications (VBS and the like, the code snippets feature and more) [I did not put "Easy" but "Seemingly easy" because it is simple and quick to create simple apps, but I never tried to build anything bigger]

Disadvantages: [ ]
-It is not free, and frankly its price is way too much! (<-- My viewpoint, feel free to commend!)
-Simple in use for the unskilled user (Next-->Next-->Finish philosophy)
[This is because the user tends to get used not being careful, there are times when a user is not skilled enough to perform a task yet he does it anyway, which is sloppy and possibly insecure work. Also, the user tends to leave the settings as they are set, and defaults are a hacker's / cracker's / penetration tester's best friend]
-Sheer number of malicious software written
-Reportedly 4120 exploits listed under the "Windows platform" search option at www.exploit-db.com as opposed to 755 under the "linux" search option at the same website. I assume that I can write here that "Windows has more security holes / exploits" although it is not always Windows but also faulty programs, another side effect of mass program / code production.
-The OS tends to get sluggish after some time due to the sheer number of security patches, causing longer booting - loading times and more space in the hard drive, along with everything that comes with (fragmentation, data corruption to name a few) [<--- This is a personal opinion / observation. Feel free to share yours!)

Now on with Linux advantages:
-FREE!! (believe me, it is a bigger deal than it seems)
-More secure (see above)
-No need to restart after most updates (save for kernel) which is a great plus for servers
-The OS has the philosophy of "replace" instead of "patch", which keeps garbage software and system load to a minimum
-Less requirements than Windows
-It has the ability to be debugged by just about anyone who has the skills for the job
-The open source ideology gives the linux user the ability to create fully customizable distributions and share them as he pleases, along the lines of the Open Source Initiative (OSI) [some distributions are commercial, you have to pay to get them, but they come along with other goodies like full personal and professional support, Red Hat Linux is what comes to mind, feel free to comment)
-They can support a lot of hardware out-of-the-box

There are more advantages, but nothing comes to mind right now, maybe I'll update later.

Disadvantages:
-There is a general confusion about what distribution is suitable, especially for the beginners
-There are quite a few pieces of hardware that are not supported.
-Sadly, and this is my estimation, there won't be any serious game projects solely on linux (by "serious" I talk about a game at the level of Warcraft 3 or Starcraft 2, and by "solely" I mean developed, installed and executed on linux, not through Windows Emulator or PlayOnLinux) because of the open software ideology. Selling games for Windows / Mac is more profitable for the companies. Feel free to comment on this one.
-The OS can get pretty user-unfriendly (to the level of user-threatening) especially for the secure distributions (BSD)
[This is a personal opinion, feel free to comment]

Well, nothing comes to mind right now at that one too (I am way too tired right now, maybe you should fill the gaps)

Let's hear your opinions then!
P.S. When I write "Feel free to comment" above, it is a commend request, not something restrictive. You can commend/add/update anything you like, but I want something especially on those remarks because I am not 100% sure.

Well in my opinion windows is easier but it is very agressive to the hardware, plus even if you "steal programs" you already have to buy some programs already, for example these days in windows I don't thrust anymore antivirus/firewall that can be cracked... (I think if the cracker can bypass the hacker can do it too.)

Much of the windows market is still on because I must say windows xp was HUGE, windows xp was like the best OS microsoft done in all their lives, windows vista was shit, and windows 7 was not as revolutionary as windows xp... Yet windows xp has a lot of problems of security too, despite being used as base software for example ATM's (in portugal some atm's are windows xp based), it still lacks security. I remember once I received a weird message (I was like 14 at the time), from a guy that was watching me, he told me that he knew I had no firewall or antivirus (it was in my first times with a computer...) so he told me he would protect me for a bit but that there were people trying to get in my computer (no shit this happen to me like in 2004), then I had the famous windows firewall/norton antivirus combo, and I fucked myself because that combination was a shit, I got this thing called porn deleter, that started deleting me things and such... Conclusion, windows xp was an improvement but believe me it is not very secure, specially if it is the base software for an atm... (Once or twice when I got to the ATM of the portuguese bank Caixa Geral de Depósitos, the atm was reboot and instead of seeing the atm software I saw an windows xp environment with start menu and ie and all. Another time I was picking up a bus in Guimarães, and the lcd that normally shows the bus horaries also had windows xp.)

Plus another advantage of having windows is directx, probably the directx is the only thing that keeps up microsoft living up because is capable of running a game without frying your hardware...

This is my opinion at least...

Conclusion: Windows is popular and good for gaming...

As for Linux, it is an OS that spits on you if you think it will threat you as a Homer Simpson... But it is less aggressive, it is much ligther and can do much of what windows, ubuntu is very user friendly, even though you need to have brains and know how to use google, you can practicable build your linux, you can create and test programs, if you're a newbie programmer/hacker any linux distribution is a good starting point, so you can started doing some things in ubuntu, and then move out to slackware maybe... You can practically do whatever you want... It takes a long time to see big differences between linux distributions... The only catch for linux is that is not good for games. But hey, if you want to, you can still use linux and an xbox 360...

...is kind of disappointing, really. Maybe I should have broken the post into smaller ones...
Anyway, another plus for Linux is the number of [network mostly] tools and better network support it has, which can become a minus sometimes (the OS is build with the assumption that the computer has network support).

As for Windows, I'll just say this: BSOD
When Windows has a serious crash, you rarely have the opportunity to even try to do anything...

The thing windows is that windows sells... Windows overcharges the hardware... Making the illusion that the quality of the computer is reducing... Actually is the processes who take more resources and let you do less things... Ever saw the update list in windows? Sometimes there are dozens of updates over and over and take a lot of space... They talk about security, blablabla... It doesn't matter... Most of those things are only there to occupy the disk and the resources... I have my Asus X51L, if you try to have an heavy use like me in windows you're fucked up... I used antivirus and firewall I bought bitdefender (I actually bought it because I don't thrust in a firewall that can be cracked, because if it can be cracked it also can let virus pass). And at first I couldn't even sepparate virus from clean cracked stuff, not until I saw FFF NFOS explaining the thing... (And therefore FFF is my favorite group.)
But then I also have tune up utilities (you can't live without tune up in Windows). I have winrar a messenger client, a irc client, a skype client, I have putty and winscp, I have notepad++ I have a million things... I tried to run 720p on windows I can't even with coreavc and I can run it on Linux... I have a hd camera from microsoft, slow as hell in windows it even says that I am almost out of resources. The irony is: It works very guvcview... I tried to reduce the processes to a minimum with gamebooster it still wastes me all the resources, and I can't understand this... There is a point in a life's computer when every single shit on windows tells you, that you need to buy a new pc... One with 7 processors attached! LOL Who the fuck needs 7core or something like that these days?

And Microsoft and the companies sell the idea that upgraded software and better hardware protect you from the hackers... LOL!

I remember my first computer back in 2004... It costed me 1200 euros, a pentium 4 really really nice... 3 months after or less I had virus all over it....

Well, I have to say, Windows tends to gain a lot of build-up garbage data very quickly. I mean, a computer with Windows tends to get a few MBytes every week, and worse of all, they won't go away! (pun intended) The whole "security updates" thing sounds a bit fishy to me, I mean, what company actually gives the user the option to uninstall the security patches? It's either a company who isn't sure (can't be sure) of its fixes, or a company who hasn't beta tested it enough. In linux the whole program or component is just replaced, no other garbage data around (if anyone has Mac experience, throw your two cents here). And regarding viruses, I do think I wrote about it earlier. Anti-virus programs are either very badly written or extremely heavy (and expensive) because they have to cover the swiss cheese that is Windows security. I mean, one of these even identified TASM as a virus, when it is just an assembly compiler! Geez....

I find bitdefender pretty good... And personally I loved zone alarm firewall... But I can't understand every 2 months I have to go some friend's home take care of a computer... The worst part is that they wanted the computer EXACTLY as it was without formatting... But they can't even tell when something called "Bonjour" is in the Windows... I mean come on... Stop downloading porno from xxxgudchicks.ws (I never liked .ws domains don't ask me why... And when I find one I always keep an eye on the content.) Even worst is when someones downloads and install a supposedly "rar" file when it is actually an .exe file...

Geez some people need parental control...

But then, it is like the song says: "The internet is for porn, the internet is for porn. Why do you think internet is born? Porn! Porn! Porn!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-TA57L0kuc you can watch it here...

Well, for starters, thumbs up, high five and hail for the video, it was freaking hilarious.
And on a more serious note, and risking going off topic here, it always bothers me that Windows makes things look easy when they are not.
Here is a video that says something quite true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9vDzaBwD_k
Quote from Shrdlu:
"If you make something too user (read: idiot) friendly, too easy to set up, you get the user used to not being careful, and it becomes vulnerable simply because the person that is setting it up doesn't need the skill that a person setting up a server should have"
That explains why you have to get to fix computers on a couple months basis: when the user thinks that it just magically happens, he doesn't know how it works. They think that the principle "Just point and click Next --> Next --> Finish" works on everything.
Another thing that bothers me is this: If you buy a car, you surely have gotten your driver's licence first, and it is illegal to drive without one. If you buy a computer, shouldn't you do the same? A computer can transport dangerous, valuable and sometimes lethal info, a computer can ruin a whole company, a computer can even rob a bank! Seriously, most people buy a computer and don't even know how to connect the cables!
Experienced Windows users just tend to sigh and clean the PC, instead of giving long lectures about security, because they know they will fall on deaf ears. This is why I do believe that Linux has a better philosophy than Windows on that aspect: it gets the user to move his arse and study, learn a thing or two. A Windows user at my job can use the PC for a decade and still won't be able to diagnose a simple problem, and asks for me instead.
Summing it up: I have been using Windows from 1997 to 2005, and the problems I encountered are still without an accurate count (the very first welcome came 1 day after I purchased my first PC, I got a worm and had to format everything, and the worm was hanging around Microsoft's update site - oh the irony). I have been using Linux ever since and the problems I had was to get some Microsoft programs to run through Wine, because apparently some people just CAN'T use OpenOffice and need Microsoft's. Good Lord.

Ok this is going to be a bit racist... But why in Hollywood the hacker is always the black guy? Seriously it is ALWAYS a black guy or a shaved bald russian with a bad face and two pistols on the belt... Ok this is going to sound even more racist but I never heard about a black person even doing anything important to the hacker community, or developing a program or hardware or whatever... Myself I am white, I think (but don't know). That the most important people on the industry are white/north african (Moroccan or Egyptian)/middle eastern/asian... No offense but this is a serious faux pas from Hollywood... It just sets up the idea that the black hats are starving niggers with an hate on society... The truth is that they are well feed white crackers with an hate on society...

Oh and when hackers are girls, they are blond model-like chicks and even those don't use mouse and hack using a Windows computer without even personalizing the desktop...
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Just to throw in: I don't think movies portray black people as hackers very frequently at all as I can only think of Morpheus in The Matrix where every other hacker is non-black. All the other movies I would think of such as Golden Eye, Swordfish, War Games, Anti-Trust, Tron, Hackers, Die Hard 4.0 etc.

Hollywood doesn't certainly doesn't portray much accurately, especially hacking and sciences in general. I think holywood sells because it is so far from reality giving people some fiction to escape into, if things were portrayed true to life then the majority of audiences wouldn't have a clue what is going on half of the time and not go down well with most. If you want things like that the closest you will get on TV is documentaries which still tend to be defiled to appeal to a broader audience.

waffle over

I do believe the video is a documentary. Besides, I do think that the main point has yet to be answered:
Windows or Linux? and why?

When I speak about Hollywood I speak about shows too... Lie to me had a black hacker, NCIS hacks on windows...

Anyway it depends a bit... If you want a computer for games, messenger/team speak Windows for sure... For work I do not think it is the best choice... For example I am always with the fear I can become a citizen without no identification... I took my new ID a few days ago (I am portuguese). Now the thing is done on Windows and the computer was very slow... That computer has my finger print and my signature... If someone with a bad sense of humor hacks in. I cease to exist... At least my old identification was a paper and a number made by a math formula... Now I don't know... I depend on a computer to leave the country... A computer with windows... William Gates III can delete me...

I generally use windows for it's simplicity (just works) and features (games) but I think it's really a case of "horses for courses" as it depends the individual circumstances as to which OS is best, such as a performance server is probably better off with a Linux or BSD but for day to day use I think Windows or even *shudder* Mac is better, and then there's situations where you are better off writing your own

CodeX wrote:I generally use windows for it's simplicity (just works)

Isn't that what the Mac claims? I don't have one so I don't know if it's true

Yeah Mac is cool, I never tried, but hey it has unix as base so it must be cool .