hacker.org

Good evening,

I am a novelist who wishes to branch into the underground world of internet hacking and crime. I know nothing of this subject and require a computer savvy, knowledgable hacker to assist in answering some technical questions. If anyone is interested in having a chat to explain some of the gritty details, please contact me on: montchoisy2002@yahoo.co.uk
Thanks!

aha, you are misinformed. Internet hacking is neither an underground topic nor does it involve any kind of crime. that's what you call a misconception. The criminals who give us a bad name are called crackers, they are a distinctly different group from hackers. Crackers love nothing more than to steal and destroy computer data. Hackers are just people who are interested in programming / general computing. We just like investigating how they work. Sounds nerdy, but to each his own. Sorry, no "gritty details" here. In fact, CEH (Certified Ethical Hackers) are the people who design your security system which I hope you are using right now. (not a threat believe it or not)

Novelists that don't capitalize their names.... Right....

could also be another law enforcer trying to find criminals. WRONG SITE GENIUS.

If it is a cop they get dumber and dumber every year. Christ, read the other posts and the real forum members opinions!!

All reasons why I didn;t reply to this person
As soon as I read...

"a novelist who wishes to branch into the underground world of internet hacking and crime"


not too bright

I am really sorry to have been misinformed. Whenever I checked Wikipedia, which is my first source for research in my books (and certainly not my last due to many inaccuracies) I saw that there are three different names for "hackers" which was White-Hat, Grey-Hat and Black-Hat and nowhere was a distinction made between hacking and cracking. I do apologise for having bothered the folk on this website however I can absolutely assure you that I am indeed a novelist and I am attempting to write a new manuscript based on what would, evidently, be "cracking" and not "hacking". Lishi is not my name and is, what I'm certain you folk are familiar with, a "handle" and therefore, I am in no way making grammatical errors that would cast doubt on my legitimacy as a writer. Lastly, I would suspect that, with the kind of technology law enforcement has, they would not have to log into a little known forum and try to trap anyone. I am sure they have their hands full with real cyber-crime.


Anyway, once again I apologise for the error I made and this simply goes to show how early I am in the stages of my research. Maybe you should not all be quite so paranoid. I know the saying goes: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you." But really guys, sometimes, they're not.


And of course, if anyone WOULD like to assist me in answering technical questions about "hacking" and "cracking" and the distinction between them, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

"Lastly, I would suspect that, with the kind of technology law enforcement has, they would not have to log into a little known forum and try to trap anyone. I am sure they have their hands full with real cyber-crime."

We were saying that they may suspect us of something, with the recent hacking incident and the idiot crackers that tend to invade the forums from time to time. Probably not targeted at normal members, but not out of the question.

"And of course, if anyone WOULD like to assist me in answering technical questions about "hacking" and "cracking" and the distinction between them, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you."

A brief description of the 3 main type of characters in our "underground" world, as you call it, are as follows (this is from a security stand point):

Hacker: Uses advanced computer skills to attack computers, not with malicious intent, but to expose security flaws. Motive is to improve security

Cracker: Violates system security with malicious intent, to destroy data, deny legitimate use of service, and otherwise cause serious problems on computers and networks

Script Kiddie: Like Crackers, have malicious intent, but no skill. download automated hacking software to break into computer systems. They do not understand the techology they use. They are just trying to bolster their ego.


Keep in mind this is from a security standpoint. Google is your friend. I'm sure if you type in "hacker" in the search box, you will find mounds of information that can explain the term. Try looking for history of the word hacker, or something like that. Of course if you are a novelist, you should know how to do research...[/list]

PaRaDoX and plope0726, thank you both for taking the time to respond to my last post. Especially thank you to plope0726 for taking the time to explain the difference between hackers and crackers. It seems that there is a certain negative stigma about hackers and I will do my best to ensure that it is noted accurately in my own work. I do of course use Google for research and find it to be extremely helpful but I have found in the past that speaking with knowledgable people directly lends towards a more accurate and reliable outcome for research - nothing quite like talking to experts. Unfortunately for a topic such as this, finding people willing to admit being experts in something like "cracking" is probably going to be a tough task. Still, it's always a good start to know which experts you should be tracking down and that's why I appreciate being put straight. Thank you again for your time. One other question I have; are hackers knowledgable in the kind of technology that would be required for tasks such as tracking IP addresses to a location and such? Please do pardon my ignorance, but this subject matter is entirely new to me.

Good evening.

Really any one can track an IP address, Though its not easy to get a 100% accurate loaction even if you have the true IP. you can run a whois search or an IP locator search, the latter is more direct. Whois just gives you info on the ISP that issued the IP.

http://www.geobytes.com/ipLocator.htm

This is just one site that anyone can use to try to find the location of an IP address (though the accuracy veries)

Are my eyes deceiving me or are a group of enlightened "hackers" mocking some poor lesser soul who doesn't know anything about computers?

Tracing a user's location (address) using his/her IP address - why would that not be possible? People who are asked this question usually thinking ONLY in the context of the extend of information you can query out of an IP address - usually ending at the ISP or the geoblock code where the IP address resides. But then if one is TRULY a hacker would that be the end? wouldn't one "hack" into the ISP security systems to locate in more depth where the IP in question maps to? - gain access to the live DHCP cache to move further closer to the target or some similar action?

If one is "cracker", which the "hackers" are so impatient to point out is the "true" name of people breaking into computer systems, then one can even use social engineering (for those of you who don't know, check it out in wikipedia, i cant be bothered explaining).

One could locate a key personnel at the ISP, become friends with them and use the relation to make the personnel voluntarily or involuntarily give u information that can help one break into their systems and locate required information.

Im sure lots of people who read this would say that that is not cracking or hacking! heck, it doesn't even have anything to do with technology. Well cracking is basically an all out attempt to get into a system that one wants to, and anything is allowed to meet that end.


Similarly you can port scan the IP to locate open/weak ports, exploit those weaknesses, install packet sniffers or cookie hijackers, get more closer to the person, and eventually you will get the persons address if you hijack and examine the packets send to and from him.

Also, to everyone who keeps screaming about the difference between hackers and crackers - Kevin Mitnik is called one of the worlds greatest hackers - and he has never done anything other than cracking his whole life - AND he used social engineering for the most part.

So to answer the question - Tracing a user's location (address) using his/her IP address - possible.

Thank you to plope0726 for the link that you provided, that was much appreciated. Thanks to cyberajith for the immensely detailed post in regards to tracking an IP and finding an address. I have taken notes on this "social engineering" and "hijacking" etc. etc. and I intend to look more deeply into the nuts and bolts. Perhaps at some stage you and I could have a chat as you certainly seem to be extremely knowledgable on the subject.

My understanding of computers do not extend much beyond opening my Firefox and my Word document so talking with someone such as yourself would prove to be very useful to me at this stage in my research.

Thanks again.

@ cyberajith, in response to pointing out the difference between hacker and cracker...

When using the term hacker in this context, the only difference really is the intent behind what a person is doing. Of course to term cracker came about because "ethical" hackers wanted to distance themselves from those who were basically trying to steal from and damage systems. Really though in the end its a persoanl opinion, some call all of the above hackers, some break them up into the sub groups, hacker, cracker, script kiddie... It doesn't matter because in the end, in the eyes of the "law", it's all the same. Usually though when I think of a hacker, I think of a person who is intrigued with discovering how things work and finding ways to use these things to their advantage. Whether it be computers, phones, or whatever. In fact, I believe the first to be called hackers were programmers who were good at "hacking" out code. And "cracking" is a term that can be used for many situations. Cracking password, Cracking copyrights, cracking into networks, and so on....But because everything in our society has to have a label we have these discussion. The general public likely thinks of hackers as anyone who breaks into computer systems, regardless of intent. Then when one steps into the "hacker" world, there are different categories for people who do these things. But I think it all comes down to intent.

plope0726:

I agree with what you have written. Esp. the points about "hacking" code and "cracking" passwords. But as you said, "ethics" here is very subjective - and I don't not think the "intent" behind an action allows a person to think he didn't do anything wrong inspite of breaking into a system. If a person says " I broke into your house, just to see how well it is built, and what locks you have in your doors and if i could pick them, but I didn't steal anything so I am not a thief" - I don't think the owner would be pleased with the person - or the law.

Its the "ethical hackers" themselves who decided to call themselves "ethical hackers". True, many might have just a curious and non-malicious intend behind their actions - but trust me, they are few and far between. And then there are so many script-junkies and crackers who try to pass off as a hacker. A "very ethical hacker" breaks into a system and doesn't touch anything (so he is a hacker till this point) and then he sees a very "interesting" file and HAS to take a look inside. The moment he does he turns into a cracker???!! I have always maintained that that definition is SO silly! Its like shop-lifting. You are in the camera eyes, but until the moment you step out of the shop without paying, you can always argue that you were going to buy the item!

Anyways - what I wanted to say is that I agree to what you have said - I know the textbook definitions of hackers and crackers and script junkies and what not , having played around with computers for many years now.

But I do get angry with people who immediately pounce upon someone who doesn't know the difference, as if it is an unpardonable sin. Even thought crackers and hackers are what is the "inside" definition - the outside world still calls everyone who breaks into computers systems as hackers.

Kevin Mitnik is called one of the greatest hackers. The skirmish between the 'Legion of Doom' (LOD) and 'Masters of Deception' (MOD) - two of the best hacking/cracking groups to ever browse the internet - was called the 'The Great Hacker War' and both the groups were called hackers and there was so much press later with each group claiming themselves to be hackers and the other group to be crackers.

Bottom line: When you break into a system - you are doing something that is NOT ethical nor legal. Whether you are termed a hacker or a cracker or a script junkie. The only time it is ethical/legal is when a company AUTHORIZES you to break into a system under THEIR OWNERSHIP to learn about its weaknesses.

..unless, maybe, one is breaking into a system to stop a megalomaniac tyrant from activating some deadly nuclear weapon and blowing up half the world